Rev. James Wilson, it's a shame you don't follow Jesus' teachings to love one another instead of spreading hate like this column.

Practice what you preach.

bman512,

You have no idea what the Bible says, do ya...

He's just saying, "Love the sinner, but hate the sin".

Following the Bible is not about spreading hate, it is only your liberal attitude that spreads hate because someone dares to follow their beliefs that do not agree with yours. Jesus's words of loving everybody did not include loving the sins they commit, only the person. Stop spreading your propaganda, the teachings of the Bible cannot be swayed because they are not politically correct.

He's just being a hypocrite.

This guy is a real number. He brings up the Constitution as codifying inalienable rights and then he supports a constitutional amendment to deny rights.

Why am I not suprised?

The best part is citing the result of studies but tells the readers to search them out ourselves. LOL!

Gays have been getting married right here in California. My marriage is still strong.

Well said Rev. Wilson!
"Love without truth is no love at all"
Some people can't handle the truth.

It IS "hate speech", MR. Wilson (you don't deserve to be addressed as "Reverend" - that title should be reserved for people who attempt to reflect God's love and compassion in their lives).

The most outrageous statement in this hate letter is your baseless claim that the high rate of suicide and addiction in the homosexual community is "not related to societal acceptance". You are a prime example of the level of NON-acceptance that exists in our society, irrespective of whether or not gay marriage is technically "legal".

I wish there was a (Suggest removal) on articles such as this, it really rates less than the most despicable comments. I will reply to this on a larger scale... probably directly to the paper.

This will require some intense consideration and thought... Prepare for change!

One very needed comment, now... Mister (and I purposfully avoided reverend) Wilson... you need to sit and talk with God and verify the position of your own soul. I speak often and openly with God and he has made it clear to me that this type of expression has nothing to do with our All Divine Being.

You may have read the book, but I know the author and he says very plainly that you are wrong. You sir are the biggest sinner.

Enjoy!

The biggest religion in the united States... and Wilson feels the need to play the persecution card.

What utter nonsense. This piece is so full of half truths, inconsistencies and flat out lies that it's hard to pick a place to start... but I'll try.

The headline was almost the worst lie of all... It claims that if Prop 8 fails to pass, "freedom of religion" would somehow be threatened as a result. If this were even remotely true, there would already be lawyers lining up to file complaints alleging the State of California has violated the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment.

Then we come to the unsubstantiated "alarming pattern' statement. This guy thinks that his religion ought to be the first thing on a doctor's mind while the doctor is working. Wrong! The religion, the doctors personal life, his/her spouse, children, etc.... all become secondary. A doctors patient, regardless of the setting, becomes the primary concern of the doctor. If a medical professional, of any kind, cannot set aside their personal issues while they work... then they should seek employment in another field.

Wilson then claims - "The doctors referred her; there was no injury to the woman as she was inseminated and gave birth."

- How completely irrelevant. The decision in this lawsuit applies to all doctors in the state. what if the doctor who had refused treatment had done so at a different point in the story?... what if it had been when the woman had gone into labor? What if she died as a result?

Now we arrive at the whopper. The statement that, if you believe it, makes it sound as if we are headed for trouble. It's what is know as a "Slippery Slope Argument". Without evidence, without citing any sources... and without even telling us what he's talking about... Wilson throws out the biggest lie in this really crappy piece. Here it is - "if the experience of northern Europe and Canada is any indicator — pastors will lose those rights should Proposition 8 fail in November."

Now, "Rev" Williams... your dishonesty sines like a beacon... Prop 8's failure will stop the pillaging of our constitution by religion. This is a good thing... to imply that it's failure will somehow institute laws that may or may not be on the books in other countries is simply wrong. it is a lie. it is dirty pool... and your entire "congregation" or whatever you call out should be embarassed to even know you, much less trust you.

More stupidity from the "Rev" Follows -

"In fact I know more former homosexuals than most liberals know in the lifestyle."

- Wilson implies that either A) All liberals are gay. or B) All gays are liberal... Neither of which are anywhere close to being true.

"I have been called a bigot by leaders above my pay grade and forced to take "awareness training""

- There is no reason to "train" a person like you. your church's members should have driven you out.

"Repeated studies show that heterosexual marriage becomes less frequent and shorter lived in the wake of legalization of gay marriage."

- How can studies be completed gay marriage was not legal until recently? Who conducted the "studies"? What methodology was used? Why don't you site a reference? Because you are lying... again. isn't that a sin?

"That leaves an entire generation at risk of being under and even unparented"

- That has already happened on it's own... and gay marriage has nothing to do with the high divorce rate of Christians.

"None of this is opinion; let readers fire up search engines and see for themselves."

- No... It is up to the person making the claim to substantiate it with evidence. Why would you make your readers search for stuff and then guess if it's what you speak of? You supposedly have the information... why are you with holding it? Is it because you get your information from unreliable and previously debunked sources?

NOTE:

IF THIS MAN IS A MEMBER OF OR REVEREND AT YOUR CHURCH... CONSIDER YOURSELF WARNED. HE IS CRAZY AND IS A DANGER TO YOU AND YOUR COMMUNITY. GET OUT WHILE YOU STILL CAN.

Well gee...if you substitute 'gay' with 'black' then how would this article read.lol

If you're prejudice towards someone for the way they were born then you are not only an idiot, but probably an immoral idiot...right reverend!

Tell ya what religious zealots, when you start stoning people for adultery, then you can at least claim to not be a hypocritical immoral idiot.

We are all hypocrites to some extent, for as long as we are unable to follow God's laws to their fullest extent. This is why Jesus gave up his life for us, so we all have a way to be forgiven for our sins.

What sin did my 4 year old commit when he was taught that he was a sinner and needed to ask for forgiveness?

60% of Americans believe in the actual Noah's Ark story!!! My 11 year old couldn't believe that figure when I told him. He said, "What is wrong with people?"

When you take the bible literally, you simply have to suspend knowledge of our tangible world. This is only acceptable if you are not involved in making the laws that rule our tangible country.

The Constitution does in fact codify our Inalienable rights endowed by our creator (God). Prop. 8 will take away the rights of those who wish to follow Gods laws. Any doctor who decides not to follow Gods laws has the continued right to do so, so why would that not also apply to the Christian doctor. In fact, most religions practice the same basic principles when I comes to these same laws, so it is not just the Christian, but also the Muslim, the Budist, etc.

Irregardless of whatever studies have been performed, the evidence of the past 50 years of our enlightened society has unequivocally shown us the result of God being shut out of society. Prop. 8 is far more treacherous than something that denies the rights of a few far left liberals. It will undermine the fabric of our society and is absolutely one more item which will continue to lead the persecution those who follow the teaching of Christ and follow God's laws.

Haters suck...particulary when they hide behind religion.

Read Rev. Wilson's statement again: "...their high rates of suicide, addiction, domestic violence and disease are not reduced because they are not related to societal acceptance."

That is a statement of fact, and not opinion. In cities that have given complete social and societal acceptance has not had a significant decrease in domestic violence, drug use, STD's, and suicides. Although the facts are not headline news in places like San Francisco, you can in fact look the information up in the court and coroners records to see the increase of these problems. Because the liberal media does not report the facts that this portion of our society does not want known, does not mean that it therefore is not happening.

I think you are confused. Mr. Wilson contributes to your confusion. Prop. 8 states...
"...only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California."

See how easy it is to confuse people with side issues that have nothing to do with a proposition up for a vote?

Shame on you and Mr. Wilson for confusing this issue with religious persecution.

"The Constitution does in fact codify our Inalienable rights endowed by our creator (God)."

- There is no "god" mentioned anywhere in our Constitution. In fact, there were attempts during the writing of the Constitution to inject such language... they were all soundly defeated.

"Prop. 8 will take away the rights of those who wish to follow Gods laws."

- No... Prop 8 would take away the right of gay couples t be treated as any other couple would be by the state institution of marriage. Religious institutions would not be affected in any way.

"Any doctor who decides not to follow Gods laws has the continued right to do so, so why would that not also apply to the Christian doctor."

- Prop 8 has nothing to do with doctors. Also, you are implying that a religious decision must be made by all doctors. That is a false dichotomy. Some doctors don't believe as you do... Some do, but set aside their personal beliefs to get the job done... and still others have beliefs that don't conflict with their work. There are thousands of individual possibilities... not just the two you claimed.

"In fact, most religions practice the same basic principles when I comes to these same laws"

- What laws?

"Irregardless"

- Not a word... redundant. been taking English classes from George Bush?

"Prop. 8 is far more treacherous than"

- I agree completely!!! DEFEAT PROP 8!!!!

"to lead the persecution those who follow the teaching of Christ and follow God's laws."

- The personal choices of other people somehow inflict religious persecution upon you? How?

Coach,

You could also substitute the word "poor" for "gay", and you would have the attitude of many so-called "people of God" in this area, who condemn and denigrate others for circumstances which are often beyond their control.

MR. Wilson refers to knowing "FORMER homosexuals". This orientation is not a "choice", however much MR. Wilson would like to believe people can be threatened or guilted into becoming something they are not.

I understand your frustration, but this is not a NEWS article, it is an OPINION article in the Opinion Column.

My beliefs on gay marriage aside, ANY time our constitutional rights become questioned, it gets my dander up. This prop. 8 warrants close attention, some say it will protect rights, some say it will limit/remove rights. I say, "let us all research and make an informed vote!"

Messenger of Light... I would suggest you do a little research before you blindly accept the assertions of the dangerous nut-job (aka Jim Wilson).

Look up Prop 8... it is an attempt by religious organizations to legislate their beliefs by CHANGING the state constitution to reflect a purely Biblical point of view.

It has nothing to do with doctors... nothing to do with any of the so-called "persecution" being claimed by Jim Wilson.

He failed to give us any "facts"... so you can discount his lies about whatever "studies" he claims to have read about right off the top.

Are you capable of critical thought? Or... will you just back up this idiotic article no matter what?

Your handle says it most appropriately: Prepare for Change. It will happen, but not in the way in which you think. If you have indeed read the book, and have spoken to God, he would have made it clear to you. All of this has nothing to do with God's divinity, you are correct. It has EVERYTHING to do with Satan.

Reverend, whatever happened to the 8th Commandment? Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor? Do you want to replace it with the 8th Proposition. Then you will be surrendering any moral authority you have left by expecting civil law to enforce your religious practice.

In the legal case you start with, the woman's health plan had an exclusive contract with the doctors' clinic. She had to get authorization and pay out of her own pocket, if she went to another clinic and doctor for the same service. The doctors' provided the service she requested to other women seen at their clinic, but only to women who were married and straight and chrisitian.

The California Supreme Court was very clear on the concept of preserving religious freedom in this case just as they did in the same-sex marriage case. In this UNANIMOUS decision (now you'll call all seven of them "activist" judges) they said the Constitution does not stand for discrimination under the guise of "religious freedom" when only some patients get a service and others do not.

The supposed "chrisitan principle" threatened was secondary to an even greater principle of medical practice: doctors are expected to act in the best interest of their patients, not their own self-interests.

How would any of your parishioners feel, if they had a dozen kids, asked their doctor for a vasectomy and were told to go to some other clinic, not covered by their health plan, pay the entire cost of the procedure, because their first doctor did not believe in birth control?

You fail to mention the specific case in Canada. The bishop of Calgary was guilty of advocating hate speech. Not satisfied with his pulpit, he published in a newspaper his belief that “the state must use its coercive power to proscribe or curtail (homosexuals).” Asking that the government criminally punish and outlaw people for who they are IS hate speech.

You can continue advocating anything you want in your church; marry only the couples you want to marry in your church; minister to your parishioners however you want in your church. The Supreme Court of California said your beliefs are protected by the Constitution’s guarantee of religious freedom.

It is your coming into the public square and telling all people, not just your church members, that the law of their civil government must be based solely on your religious beliefs.

The rest of your ranting fails to give any objective facts about the real causes of marital decline. You lay all the blame for the decline in marriage on a group of people who have never been allowed to marry. You have no credibility.

You are at best a hypocrite. At worse, a hate monger who scapegoats others for your own failed moral authority. People know a liar, even when dressed up in vestments.

The Rev. Wilson's slippery slope arguement is valid to us on this side of the fence. Since I lack your eloquence to voice the appropriate arguement to challenge your assertions, I can only analogize... Since you and your neighbor both have grass growing on your respective properties, yours being green, the neighbors being brown, it is obvious that your neighbor is not caring for his yard and is therefore a blight on the neighborhood. But never mind that you are growing grass to improve the appearance of your property, while the neighbor is growing wheat to feed the neighborhood. You see this as blight, he sees it as a good thing. But since you are so strongly opposed to seeing the other side, we can only do what is possible until the day that the truth is made known to you. I personally will pray that you and all the others who feel the way you do will find the truth before the final judgement. This is at least that one thing we all have in common... we all have fallen short and are sinners before God.

Restore and Protect Marriage! We already voted on this proposition...millions of people voted,and was stated that man and women is the definition of marriage. now four people can overturn what we all voted on a few years back...what!?!? A child should have a mother and a father. it is crucial to have such a family role model. Did you know, if this passes, and you believe in Man and Women as a marriage, that your church can be sued if some homosexual wants to join your church!?!? Now people will be gay just to get money and we will all have law suits up the ying yang!
Proposition 8 is the same 14 words California voters approved before, but this time it's put into our constitution:
"Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"YES on Proposition 8"

I cannot speak for the Rev. Wilson, but I can speak for myself. Most of the liberal mindset of equality for all, live and let live, and so on fits with the Christian mindset except for one critical factor. The Christian prefers to see the sin and overcome it, while the other side prefers to just accept it. Most Christians have prefered to make accomodations for the sinner that they have come to the point that the sin is no longer recognizable to them. This is part of the slippery slope analogy that has become such a big part of the Church in these modern times. Sensitivty training, Diversity training, etc. has undermined the basic Christian principals to the point that in reality, most "Christians" are no longer really any different than most Liberals. They have accepted the lies of the agent of death (Satan), and would not know the truth if it hit them between the eyes. In someways, it would be nice if your note at the bottom of your comment were taken to heart by everyone, but in the end, the reality will be just that... the non-believer will have to flee when Jesus returns. Personally, I'd be happy if all could stay, but being a realist about these things, I know that it won't happen.

Part of the overall problem in the world today is the result of too many centuries of religious zealots. They have caused so much human misery, it's too much to even try to account for. Religious zealots have driven so many people away from the truth they claim to be bringing to people, it's just downright sickening. There is no place for religion in this world, and someday, the Kingdom of Heaven will be established, and ALL religions will be gone and replaced by one simple fact... God.

As to the stoning of people, it still occurs, literally in places like Darfur for instance, and figuratively, like here in this forum. It's wrong no matter which way it is done, but it is a fact of life that we have to deal with.

You speak of sins as facts and then go on to denounce zealots!!!rlmao

I'm well aware of the stoning that takes place in fundamentally religious countries...such as in the Middle East. Should we emulate them? Iran doesn't have gay people...that might be a good place to check out if the civil rights of this country don't jibe with your 'beliefs'.

ProtectMarriage.com
YES on Proposition 8!!

Messenger,

Just the fact of living in San Francisco (with its larger-than-average gay community) is no guarantee that the majority of Bay Area residents are more "accepting" of gays than are people anywhere else. The only difference is that certain local politicians address their issues to a greater extent than they would elsewhere because gays are a more noticeable portion of their voting block.

In fact, I have a close friend who has lived in the Bay Area for the past few years, and he tells me there is quite a bit of hostility and backlash there from the area's mainly NON-gay population, who have an "us against them" mentality.

"The Christian prefers to see the sin and overcome it, while the other side prefers to just accept it."

- You paint this as a "Liberal vs. Christian" dilemma... when in reality most Liberal people ARE Christians as well. Maybe your should narrow your definition down to "Social Conservative vs. Liberal" or "Moderate Christian vs. Fundamentalist Christian"?

"They have accepted the lies of the agent of death (Satan"

- Yes, "Fundamentalist" (see above) certainly applies to you. That's a bit of a nutty assertion regarding imaginary creatures influencing the lives of people. It really makes no sense if you think about it.

"the non-believer will have to flee when Jesus returns."

- This "Jesus" guy does not sound very nice. Why would the so-called "Prince of Peace" act like such a jealous tyrant? And... flee to where? ... and what happens if one does not flee? It all sounds so much like the rantings of an angry 2000 year old religion... Oh... wait... it is!

I'm not God, so I can't tell you what sins your 4 year old has commited, nor is it my business to know these things. I have no idea who has taught your 4 year old anything other than you, his parent. So I have no idea what he has been taught by you. I would not even presume to know these things.

But, there is a reason why we refer to God as the Father. We know that we are born in sin, and therefore sin is just a part of life we begin with and live our entire lives with. But as your sons father, have you not told your son what he can and cannot do? Has he not disobeyed his father at times? Have you not ever been disappointed (even just slightly) when your son refuses to take no for an answer, or fails to stay out of trouble? It's just a fact of life, that our relationship with God is not any different than yours with your son. At 4 years old, your son is much to young to fully understand the concept of sin, and if any fanatic attempts to place this concept in his head at this age, they are totally out of line. Children learn this concept by watching and learning from their parents, therefore it is the parent who is responsible for what the child learns. At the point that a child is able to think on their own, come to their own conclusions, and accept or reject God, it's nobody's business but yours.

The only thing threatening freedom of religion in America are the evangelical "christo-fascists.
What's interesting is that they are in the minority just like the Taliban is in Islam. Why don't those religions police their own murders in the name of God. If the majority of the Christians oppose those "christo-fascists" like McVieh why do they they allow them to speak for God? Or them for that matter!

Are they trying to take away my right to hate?

the worst haters I ever met were from the homosexual community...Or San Francisco

Yer a NUT!

christians/jews/serbs/croats/shites/sunnis/islam/muslim/hindu etc. are ALL religious zealots wanting to tell everyone else what to believe and where/how they can live in Peace!

Can't we all just get along?

latlarge you said: " The only thing threatening freedom of religion in America are the evangelical "christo-fascists."

That was funny to me because what went immediately through my brain was the only thing threatening america is religion. It has been the dividing line between races since we can remember and it is finally coming to a head. It is all hypocracy and I am glad that I stepped out of the game a long time ago. Organized religion is what causes war of all scales.

"Are they trying to take away my right to hate?"

- Is who trying to take away your right to hate? And... how are they doing it?

Hate all you want... just don't vote for laws that spread your hate to the rest of us by modifying our constitution to discriminate against those you choose to hate.

VOTE NO on PROP 8!!!

Does anyone know what whacked out Church accepts the "Rev" Jim Wilson as a leader?

"We know that we are born in sin"

NO! You BELIEVE we are born in sin.

all religion is...is indoctranation of people to your way of thinking and making them swear to it...therefore you can control them

The story of Noah's Ark if taken literally, does not make sense to anyone to thinks about it long enough. It's one of those things that does in fact require people to suspend acknowleging facts as we know them in the physical world. It therefore has to be accepted on faith alone, which is not much different from many of the theories that scientists have put forth. As to the worldwide flood, there are many civilizations who tell the same story all over the mid-east, in the America's, and even in the Far-East. Somewhere, something happened that caused all these civilizations to record the same basic story, and most researchers, whether Christian or not, all say that every myth that has been recorded, has some basis in fact buried somewhere in them. So I personally have no problem believing that the story of Noah is based in fact and therefore I can just take the Ark on faith without changing the basic facts.

In regard to tangible facts, there are several theories and evidence that shows the possiblity that a world-wide deluge could have happened within the past 15,000 years (some which were even printed by the R/S). It's not unusual that facts get hidden right in front of our faces. Eventually, I believe that the truth will prevail in the end. I don't have to get radical about it as I can't prove somethings that I know.

religion=control

lets build a boat!

I agree with you!

I think that Noah's ark was a space ship from Mars. Bringing the survivors of a planet after an republican administration, and religious political wars destroyed it.
Yep, exploitation and social bigotry will ruin it for everyone every time

HUH?

Hugh Hefner also wants you to vote against Prop. 8. After all, it's not "fair" and it's "discriminatory" that ol' Hef can't marry his 3 hot girlfriends. We need to legalize group marriage to get rid of the hetero-based "couples only" norm!

P.S. It's also not fair that none of Hef's girlfriends will marry me...

"It therefore has to be accepted on faith alone, which is not much different from many of the theories that scientists have put forth."

- How completely untrue! If you knew the first thing about science, you would know that scientific theories are always falsifiable... As opposed to "faith" in a god, which is not falsifiable.

The science that backs up a theory is based on empirical evidence... not make believe "faith" in an unknown. Theories that have flaws exposed are modified to account for the error or are discarded completely in favor of something better. Don't forget that gravity and relativity are both facts and theories... just as evolution is. That evolution occurs is a fact. The causal mechanisms behind the occurrence of evolution are what the theory of evolution consist of. Get it?

To claim otherwise is to acknowledge that you don't investigate your assertions before posting them... you simply parrot what you are told by others.

How sad for you.

I am not confused. I do know that the law of the land has recognized the Religious institution of marriage under the law. Gays want religious rights force upon those who prefer not to confer our religious rights to those who don't believe. A harsh statement, I know, but the truth. Does that mean I wish to deny Gays their equal rights under the law? Absolutely not!!! I believe that have every right to a civil union as I do, or you, or the Heathen. This is the fundamental problem... Marriage should be a religious matter, not a civil matter. It matters not whether people are heterosexual or homosexual. Should they wish to be recognized under the Law as being unified as one in a Union, they should do so. Go to the License bureau, pay the fee, have the Justice of the Peace wave his/her hand, say Omni Omni Go Have Sex Now and live in peace. Then it's legal. That couple can go to Church, and have whatever rite they wish, it won't matter. None of this changes the fact that Prop. 8 is in fact just another "slippery slope" that has been expressed previously.

Every time they redefine what "hate speech" is, they take away your right to be legally be angry.
Just look at what's going on with just trying to ask Palin a Question, next thing you know you are a gender bigot asking hateful questions.

-messenger of light (8:42 AM post)
Well stated.

anything Hefs for...I'm for

Sure thing. Analogies. The only bastion of leverage the weak minded zealots turn to in an effort to get people to see their point. How many times have we had to suffer analogies by those in cloth? zzzzz.

"Hugh Hefner also wants you to vote against Prop. 8. After all, it's not "fair" and it's "discriminatory" that ol' Hef can't marry his 3 hot girlfriends."

- Defeating Prop 8 will not allow "Hef" to marry more than one individual at a time.

Your argument is false on more than one count:

A) Our constitution defines marriage as being between two individuals. Defeating Prop 8 will not change that. So, you are guilty of a false claim.

B) Suggesting defeat of Prop 8 will somehow eventually lead to marriages between more than two individuals at one time is a "slippery slope" argument without any evidence to substantiate the claim... and is therefore false.

Try again...

To those of you that know Gods word, you know it says God hates homosexuality. It is an abomination.
Had God intended for men to be with men, women with women, he could easily have made it possible for them to procreate. He didn't, and he did it for a reason - it's not part of his plan.

People can choose to do whatever they want, but trying to justify it by perverting Gods word doesn't make it right, and accepting sin doesn't make us better people.

EVERY society on earth that has accepted homosexuality has fallen. America is well on its way. It's time for Christians to rise up, get involved in the political system and vote for
those that exhibit the fruit of Christianity. The bible says that when you appoint a King, appoint a brother. Our forefathers were Christians, and our country is built on a Christian foundation. If we move from that foundation, it is like building a home on a foundation meant for another house.

The absence of Christians in the political system and falling for the ridiculous idea that the founders of the country meant for Christian values in our leaders be ignored is what got us to this point. The government cannot force a specific religion on the people, nor can they stop people from practicing their religion.

By forcing doctors to go against their beliefs, that in fact is what the state is doing. The state itself is then forcing a religion on the people, the religion of atheism. It's wrong, and we need to stop it now.

The election in November has a conservative, pro life team that will appoint judges that don't interpret the constitution, but will uphold it. VOTE.

Yup!

we all know how law works....if there is a loophole...it will be used...the people that write these laws purposely leave loopholes to accomodate thier true agenda!!!!

nobody in any profession should be forced to do anything they are not comfortable with...therefore if a rotor ruter man does'nt like crap...we should accomodate him

Heathen, everybody that has prowled these forums for any length of time would know that you are just poking for the sake of arguement here, and I'm not going to bite on your bait. I've read your posts for sometime, and although I think you are wrong about many things, I agree with you about many more. But I will respond to the fact that "many religions practice the same laws". I'm refering to basic human laws that teach peace, enlightenment, and so on. Basic human laws are all pretty much the same. Islam is not much different than Christianity, except for the fact that both have be bastardized by zealots on both sides. The truth gets left mangled and bloodied somewhere in between. Because I believe in Jesus and His teachings, and my faith is strong, doesn't mean I will force you to accept it and force your complience to that belief. That would not be in accordance to Gods way. You have to come to that conclusion on your own, which is what God has instructed and ask us all to do. God is not a tyrant, even though religion has gone to great lengths to make him one. That being said, why then should I passively accept the world view being inflicted upon me or those who believe as I do???

Gods law tells you to go out and SPREAD the word...in other words....get them to believe....which is forcing them to think like you, which goes all the way back to Moses...at least be honest about your objective!!!

Just because I believe and agree to the overall point that Rev. Wilson was making, does not mean I am blindly accepting the whole. I don't even do this in church. If a pastor tells me something is in the Bible, I look it up. Rev. Wright stated "It's in the bible... God damn America". Sorry, I could not find that in my bible. Sometimes "studies" are skewed to provide the outcome appropriate to the arguement. That would mean that most of them are worthless. On the otherhand, looking back on the past and seeing what has happended to the world as a whole has more validity to me. It's being capable of critical thought that gives me the strength to maintain my faith no matter what happens, no matter what is said, and no matter what your opinion is.

"... why then should I passively accept the world view being inflicted upon me or those who believe as I do???"
For the same reason the rest of us do in order to live together in the American community. A republic that is NOT a theocracy . Allowing me to have my relationship with God, whatever I choose to call it. It's not up for a vote, and you, your pastor or personal theology can ever legislate it out of me. Or me you.

Yeah just look at G.W.Bush ! He hides behind religion and then commits some of the most deadlist sins a man can commit !

I denounce what the zealots have done. Denouncing the zealot themselves is wrong. It's not any different than Loving the sinner, hating the sin. Why is that a problem for you? I stand by my statement about the other religions, and your point just unlines what I was saying about the zealots. But please, don't put words in my mouth that I have not spoken.

"I am not confused. I do know that the law of the land has recognized the Religious institution of marriage under the law."

- No. There are two institutions of marriage. one legal and one religious. A religious marriage is recognized as legal by the state. A legal marriage may or may not be recognized by any or all religious organizations.

"Gays want religious rights force upon those who prefer not to confer our religious rights to those who don't believe."

- No. No religious institution is being forced to recognize gay marriage.

"I believe that have every right to a civil union as I do, or you, or the Heathen."

- yes... but that is not the same as marriage. They are two different things. "Separate but equal" is as unconstitutional now as it was when segregation was struck down by the Supreme Court.

"None of this changes the fact that Prop. 8 is in fact just another "slippery slope" that has been expressed previously."

- Please explain what you mean by this. Are you asserting that passage of prop 8 would set a dangerous precedent of legislating religious beliefs? If so, I would agree.

Since when did Wilson become a columnist for the RS..."speaking his piece" is one thing, but now he's the offical prayer voice of The Record Searchlight...shame.

This whole opinion piece is a lie and should be suggested for removal.

Civil marriage is exactly that...civil...just so happens that ministers and priests have been "deputized" by the state to perform civil ceremonies and sign marriage certificates....there is nothing in current California marriage equality laws which requires a minister to perform a marriage against their will.

Get over yourselves. Get your prayer and religion out of my government.

No on Prop 8. Do not discriminate.

Censorship is a hard position to defend. Rebuttal of the article is your privilege, banning content that is contrary to your opinion is censorship. Your desire for one sided dialogue is more offensive than anything in this article.

I beg to differ. Have you ever read the California Constitution itself (and not just what a bunch of pointy-headed intellectuals and judges say what's in it)? I doubt it.

Here's the link to the document itself where you can type in "marriage" and read what the California Constitution says (it mentions it in 2 sections, Article 1 and Article 13A).

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate

ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS:
SEC. 21. Property owned before marriage or acquired during marriage
by gift, will, or inheritance is separate property.

ARTICLE 13A [TAX LIMITATION]:

(3) Transfers to a spouse or former spouse in connection with a
property settlement agreement or decree of dissolution of a marriage
or legal separation.

(5) The distribution of a legal entity's property to a spouse or
former spouse in exchange for the interest of the spouse in the legal
entity in connection with a property settlement agreement or a
decree of dissolution of a marriage or legal separation.
--------------------

Bottom line: You are WRONG, WRONG, WRONG in your assertion that the California Constitution defines marriage as between 2 people. In fact, it doesn't define marriage AT ALL, allowing judges to redefine it at will UNTIL an amendment is passed defining EXACTLY who and how many people are allowed to enter into such a social contract.

Jude Dude: Are you having some kind of seizure? Do you need medical attention?

LMAO....... i will tell you what i dont like..... i dont like having christian crap shoved down my throat regardless of the topic.....remember it is all written by MEN who are just as likely to sin as anyone else.

You use words like 'know' instead of 'believe'. That makes you a fanatical religious person aka religious zealot.

Actually, since the California Constitution DOES NOT define "marriage" AT ALL, it's only a matter of time 'til some judge lets Hef marry his 3 hot girlfriends, Jethro marries his sister and ol' crazy Aunt Marie can marry her cat. Hey, it ain't out of the realm of possibility... anything is possible in California (the land of fruits, nuts and flakes aka, the Cereal State).

I always wondered where Flip Wilson's "Church of what's happening now" was located. It seems that Reverend Jim Wilson is an associate of Flip Wilson's Reverend Leroy.

Maybe we disagree on the words, the thought remains the same. To me, Satan does not represent an imaginary creature, and in fact is only a disembodies spirit. Know that Satan exists does not make me a "nut job", but if thinking that makes you feel better, fine. I can live with it.

Fleeing, that you refer to at the end of your comment only reflects that in which I gave an analogy to treebones earlier. As a child knows he has done something wrong, he would rather flee than face his father who he knows will either punish or discipline him. Our relationship with God is basically no different than that.

people just go sit in your church pew worshipping jesus' return to lead us into war with the muslims. with all the stories surfacing lately you'd think more people would see the handwriting on the wall but yet denial serves its purpose and ignorance if bliss for now anyways. st. jude as for that comment in god we trust on our currency it speaks volumes and i don't mean in a godly way either.