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Goodman: What don't we know about John McCain?

Unless you stayed up to the bitter end, you missed the last question. It came over the Internet from Peggy in Amherst, N.H., and, as Tom Brokaw warned, it had a certain "Zen-like" quality: "What don't you know and how will you learn it?"

This wasn't a trick question hurled at the men who would be president. The subtext was the shared anxiety that we are picking a president who will be making decisions in that "unknown" zone called the future.

"It's the challenges that you don't (expect) that end up consuming most of your time," responded Obama.

"What I don't know is what all of us don't know, and that's what's going to happen both here at home and abroad," concurred McCain.

Uncertainty is the backdrop for this campaign whose last month is being conducted over the shakiest terrain. What we didn't know yesterday, last week, last month suddenly reshapes the contours of our lives. Credit-default swaps? Mortgage-backed securities? Nothing Zen about them.

On the day of the second debate, the stock market dropped 508 points. A story on the evening news chronicled a meltdown in Iceland that had nothing to do with global warming. Who knew that we'd be worrying about Iceland's finances?

I've often been bemused at how financial markets talk about "the future" as if it were a living, breathing, gambling thing. The future is up, they say, the future is down. But there's no metaphor in saying the future is uncertain.

As for Peggy? Maybe she was remembering George W. Bush. He ran as a compassionate conservative and presided over the future's wrecking crew. The man so many Americans wanted to have a beer with now bellies up to the bar alone.

Or maybe Peggy was reminding us of something else. Being president is more of an improvisation than a neatly scripted plan. It's about reactions as much as actions. What we need to know most about a president is how he thinks, how he listens, the strength of his worldview and the nimbleness of his mind.

The debate hype was all about toughness. Sarah Barracuda said the gloves would come off, as if a bare-fisted fighter weren't just as likely to injure himself as injure an opponent. The early headlines said "Rivals Trade Jabs." The instant replays showed the awkward, angry moment when McCain referred to Obama as "that one." The media search for zingers showed Obama reminding voters of McCain's musical rendition of Bomb Iran.

But a sober — even somber — group of independent voters from Nashville were looking for reassurance, not red meat. It is not morning in America and anecdotes are not information. The competition was about which candidate owns the future. And the victory went to "that one."

This wasn't just a matter of age. After all, both men identified Warren Buffett, 78, as their wise man. Nor was it simply a matter of style, although Obama quietly owned the stage that McCain paced uneasily. But both times McCain insisted that we need a "steady hand at the tiller," it sounded like a pitch for his opponent. We were reminded that McCain has rebooted his image as if it were a pesky computer. Steady is not how he goes.

McCain's insistence that Obama is too green, that we "don't have time for on-the-job training, my friends," played against the image of the Illinois senator in cool command as he explained the rescue package. The urgent, insistent sales pitch from McCain that he is the one to get Osama bin Laden — "I'll get him. I know how to get him. I'll get him no matter what" — left this viewer wondering what he was waiting for.

This election is flowing toward the Democrat the way the Dow Jones average is flowing downstream. What we don't know yet is exactly what the McCain campaign is willing to do to try and stanch the flow. But we know how we'll learn it.

The airwaves are already full of attack ads calling Obama dangerous and dishonorable. The candidate is asking darkly, "Who is Obama?" His running mate presiding over "Palin's Pit Bulls" is saying that Obama has been "palling around with terrorists."

In an earlier incarnation, McCain once wrote, "I've had my fill of partisan excesses, and I don't intend to disgrace myself by indulging in them." The very un-Zen-like question is not whether McCain will commit character assassination. It's whether he's committing character suicide.

****

CORRECTION: In a recent column, I mentioned a case on the Supreme Court docket involving the FCC and Fox News. The case involves the FCC and Fox Television Stations.

Ellen Goodman writes for The Boston Globe. Her e-mail address is ellengoodman@globe.com.

Comments

Posted by Prepare4Change on October 10, 2008 at 6:58 a.m.

Agreed... I have a problem voting for someone who's main content of their campaign is "At least I'm not the other guy."

One of the earliest rules of illusion that magicians learn is distraction.

"Look over there...." poof... the economy is gone!

Enjoy!


Posted by painterguy on October 10, 2008 at 7:15 a.m.

McCain does not care about our economy, he does not give a rats butt about you or I or anyone except his own gratifications. That is clearly seen in the debates and the little snip pits he makes towards Obama, while Obama sits on the side line and calmly lets his opponent run his mouth right out of an election.


Posted by Northstate04 on October 10, 2008 at 7:18 a.m.

At least Senator McCain has a record and a history to review. Talk about 'what we don't know' about a candidate. Senator Obama is the great unknown.


Posted by NorCalHeathen3 on October 10, 2008 at 7:26 a.m.

Here comes the inevitable whines of the wing-nuts who are getting angrier every day that their slimy smears don't stick.

Be prepared for a huge uptick in smear ads and trumped-up accusations against Obama today in an attempt to distract from the "Troopergate" report and the obvious economic pains being felt all over the country (and the world for that matter).

It's time for the Republican party to rethink how it operates. It's time for their hardcore base to understand that it's not okay to do anything, no matter how dishonest, to win.


Posted by john on October 10, 2008 at 7:35 a.m.

Yeah, he has a record.
A record of taking bribes from Keating going to influence peddling with his campaign staff being loaded with lobbyists.
A record of voting to NIOT supply our troops with armor. Took Biden to do that.
A record of voting against vets issues.
A record of voting with Bush 90% of the time

John McCain's record is why they are reduced to the slime they have been slinging this week
McCain's record never has been good enough for the presidency.


Posted by john on October 10, 2008 at 7:49 a.m.

But we also know this.McCain is a lifelong gambler who plays craps.
Now we know this to go with that.

"Today, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) asked the Senate Ethics Committee to investigate whether Senator John McCain (R-AZ) violated federal law and Senate rules by failing to disclose gambling winnings on his Senate financial disclosure reports."


Posted by TheGreatUnwashed on October 10, 2008 at 8:02 a.m.

It looks like McCain/Palin are now pushing the emotions of hate and fear to try and save their campaign. The crowds at their speeches are getting pretty ugly.
I recall McCain saying he would refuse to run the type of campaign that was used against him by Bush. Well, what happened?
Perhaps McCain lost control of his destiny when he allowed Palin to be forced on the ticket to pander to evangelicals. No way he would have picked her without party pressure. Since then he has caved and back tracked on everything he once claimed to stand for. It's sad to see.
McCain is a rather tragic figure who after coming home from war a Hero started a long walk towards shame. It seems he is now sprinting.


Posted by MontyPython on October 10, 2008 at 8:04 a.m.

I just love the McCain bashing from Shasta Co. It really makes me feel better about my neighbors' intelligence levels and tooth counts. I'm sure the "darkside" will chime in soon.


Posted by reddinglife on October 10, 2008 at 8:12 a.m.

in response to NorCalHeathen3

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)


Posted by 3M_TA3 on October 10, 2008 at 8:22 a.m.

in response to MontyPython

I bet you're just fine with all the Obama bashing though...Can't handle it when the tables are turned? Vote NO to "Winky and Blinky"

OBAMA/BIDEN '08


Posted by Northstate04 on October 10, 2008 at 8:23 a.m.

in response to john

John, you need to take a break from the left wing web sites. McCain was exonerated of the charges against him in the Keating 5, as was another of the Democrat Senator. Only the other three Democrat Senators were convicted.

As for the voting record, he's already explained why he voted against the bills, due to what else was in them. If more of Congress had done the same, we'd have a much smaller debt than we do today.

I'm not fond of McCain at all, but less fond of Obama because of the great unknowns.


Posted by 3M_TA3 on October 10, 2008 at 8:23 a.m.

McDeadmanwalking is desperate!!!


Posted by randy on October 10, 2008 at 8:25 a.m.

It is time McCain take a much needed rest and just let someone clean the dust off his circuits. "my fellow prisoners" he calls us without even giving a hint that he actually realizes what he just said. Palin, standing beside him, managed to keep her face straight too. Then again, maybe this re4ally did go right by the both of them.


Posted by richsteele on October 10, 2008 at 8:27 a.m.

in response to john

I see John is at it again. Lets see if we can put a little of the truth into it.

1. Keating bribes. He was completely exonerated for that. Which means he was investigated and cleared. Unlike Obama that has not been investigated on any of his associations. You know the terrorist here, the terrorist in Kenya, the crook in jail, Acorn and the list goes on and on for such a young politician.
2. He voted no on the bill because it had time lines attached and pork from the democrats to garner votes. The bills were anything but clean.
3. Name them and here again you will find them loaded with pork and earmarks. He did not vote against the bill just the garbage attached to it. Better than Obama who was on the Vets committee but never had any hearings.
4. So did Obama when he was around. He was only available for work and votes 46% of the time.
5. NIce rhetoric but what does it mean. Could it be the Franks, Dodd, Obama slime with Fannie and Freddie we are talking about.
6. At least he has a record to look at.


Posted by yellowhak1 on October 10, 2008 at 8:36 a.m.

ceejaycam: haven't seen any of your comments lately. i can't blame you. i give up. these people have been drinking too much of that arsenic laden water to think beyond the two party system or their tv screen.


Posted by NorCalHeathen3 on October 10, 2008 at 8:42 a.m.

in response to reddinglife

Your comment is mean-hearted, off topic, and slanderous.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

An apology is in order... although I expect that you're too narrow minded and stubborn to do the right thing.


Posted by notXtian on October 10, 2008 at 8:42 a.m.

I found the following article quite telling of the kind of man that John McCain truly is:

www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/05/emrolling-stoneem-mccain_n_132093.html

I used to think highly of him, I even read one of his books, but seeing the dishonorable way he's acting now, my opinion of him has certainly changed.


Posted by mwoods66 on October 10, 2008 at 8:43 a.m.

in response to richsteele

Nice comment....It's scary how the public can vote for such an unknown, or even back him!! Obama's short history of politics needs to come out into the open. From what i have been hearing, Obama's Campaign is really getting nervious about his history. Open your eyes folks.

McCain/Palin "best choice"


Posted by alvinkarpis2 on October 10, 2008 at 8:48 a.m.

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)


Posted by common_sense on October 10, 2008 at 8:50 a.m.

Go McCain, yes he has issue's but Obama has bigger issue's like hanging with terriorists, he was in with Fannie and Freddie who cause a lot of this mess, he does not give anyone a solution on how he is going to fix the economy, he just said he will, at least McCain has a plan. Obama will tax the heck out of small businesses that make over 200.000, he will fine businesses that don't pay for childrens medical of their employee's and he hasn't stated how much that will be. Obama has not knowlege on how to deal with other countries to keep us safe and next he will take our guns,I can go on and on. Both Candidates have issues but McCain has far less issues! At least he has proven record.
I SAY YES TO MCCAIN!!!


Posted by NorCalHeathen3 on October 10, 2008 at 8:52 a.m.

in response to mwoods66

"Obama's short history of politics needs to come out into the open."

- As if his history has not been completely laid out from the start? Gimme a break! The man is a proven leader who has clearly demonstrated his ability to calmly and successfully address problems. Sure beats the panic driven erratic behavior being displayed by McCain and Palin.

"From what i have been hearing, Obama's Campaign is really getting nervious about his history."

- LOL... From what you've been "hearing"? Yeah... whatever... right wing radio is hardly a relevant source for insider information (or any information unless you want to hear slimy spin all day).

"Open your eyes folks."

- Um... we have! Hence the nationwide shift in Obama's favor. Y'all had your chance... and blew it!


Posted by john on October 10, 2008 at 8:58 a.m.

What else we know about John McCain is that he was for privatizing Social security.
The Stock market opened today and immediately fell below 8000.
Such stupid and risky thinking should be rejected buy voters.


Posted by GoGriz on October 10, 2008 at 9 a.m.

in response to Northstate04

So what you are really saying is "Damn, why can't we get some bad $h*t on this guy?!" If there was some big monster of a story out there, the Repubs would know it by now, wouldn't they?


Posted by Sid on October 10, 2008 at 9:03 a.m.

It seems McCain has recieved his diploma from the Karl Rove school of character assasination. It's sad where we have gone with our elections when in the final months they turn ugly and all he can do to keep in the race is try to destroy the other mans character. Bush did it to McCain and I am surprised McCain would stoop to this. I have lost any respect for John McCain that I had, and his wife needs to just go away.


Posted by manuel on October 10, 2008 at 9:07 a.m.

NO NEW BUSH!!!! NO NEW MC CAIN!!!! my teeth are clean and fresh to the kook that said obama supporters are doing something to make them loose teeth, what are YOU on dude??? obama is not a black panther, hes as white as tiger woods, i take it back. hes whiter!!


Posted by john on October 10, 2008 at 9:12 a.m.

in response to richsteele

1. No he was not exonerated at all. He took money, accepted vacations and contributions form CLOSE family friend Charles Keating and reprimanded by the Ethics committee.
"In the year before his Senate run, McCain had championed legislation that would have delayed new regulations of savings and loans. Grateful, Keating contributed $54,000 to McCain's Senate campaign. Now, when Keating tried to stack the federal regulatory bank board with cronies, McCain made a phone call seeking to push them through. In 1987, in an unprecedented display of political intimidation, McCain also attended two meetings convened by Keating to pressure federal regulators to back off. "
http://www.truthout.org/100508A

2. There has never been a successful case against ACORN, so you have nothing but EMPTY and empty-headed accusations there.
What we are seeing right now is another attempt by the republican party to restrict voting as they cannot win faorly. While this is happening they are committing ELECTION fraud by illegally removing thousands of voters from the roles, much like they did in 2000 and 2004.
The Republican party, unlike ACORN, has been convicted of election fraud.

3. John Mcain has a long association with G. Gordon Liddy, a convicted subversive, and Palin with ANTI-Americans.
Obama 's relationship with Ayers is literally casual.
The Kenya thing is absurd, you should smack yourslef for even trying to bring t up.

4. John McCain put ideology in front of his votes for Vets. It is a long record of voting against Vets concerns by using excuses. They have never come first for him. His ideology has always gone before our troops.
Wnat the list?

5. No one has missed MORE VOTES than McCain during this session of Congress. He missed 108 out of 109 votes. A guy with a brain aneurysm showed up more often.

And if your record is one of being wrong, who cares how long that record is?


Posted by GoGriz on October 10, 2008 at 9:16 a.m.

Northstate04

The troopergate report is due out this afternoon. You see, if there is something out there that needs to be brought to America's attention about a candidate, it will come to it's fruition. So, you know nothing of Obama? Go to his website or factcheck. Feel free to educate yourself on all of the issues.

OBAMA/BIDEN 08!


Posted by hawkeye on October 10, 2008 at 9:17 a.m.

in response to common_sense

"Obama has not knowlege on how to deal with other countries to keep us safe and next he will take our guns,I can go on and on."

I recommend that you go to barackobama.com and review his position on the Second Amendment. You should be pleasantly surprised. That is, of course, unless the truth doesn't fit into your narrow vision


Posted by thehermit on October 10, 2008 at 9:18 a.m.

in response to john

McCain likes to play craps???...SO WHAT...if he has winnings to disclose he must be good at it...


Posted by canaan on October 10, 2008 at 9:21 a.m.

in response to common_sense

The federal prosecutor in the Weatherman case wrote a letter to the editor:

Re “Politics of Attack” (editorial, Oct. 8) and “Obama and ’60s Bomber: A Look Into Crossed Paths” (front page, Oct. 4):

As the lead federal prosecutor of the Weathermen in the 1970s (I was then chief of the criminal division in the Eastern District of Michigan and took over the Weathermen prosecution in 1972), I am amazed and outraged that Senator Barack Obama is being linked to William Ayers’s terrorist activities 40 years ago when Mr. Obama was, as he has noted, just a child.

Although I dearly wanted to obtain convictions against all the Weathermen, including Bill Ayers, I am very pleased to learn that he has become a responsible citizen.

Because Senator Obama recently served on a board of a charitable organization with Mr. Ayers cannot possibly link the senator to acts perpetrated by Mr. Ayers so many years ago.

I do take issue with the statement in your news article that the Weathermen indictment was dismissed because of “prosecutorial misconduct.” It was dismissed because of illegal activities, including wiretaps, break-ins and mail interceptions, initiated by John N. Mitchell, attorney general at that time, and W. Mark Felt, an F.B.I. assistant director.

William C. Ibershof


Posted by thehermit on October 10, 2008 at 9:29 a.m.

I wonder what the lefty elits such as Bill Ayers and his wife like about Obama...why did the decide to help him get started ...mmmmm...why are they hiding in shadows....


Posted by john on October 10, 2008 at 9:31 a.m.

in response to mwoods66

Just who did you hear this from?

I'll bet you large sums didn't hear it from Obama's campiagn team and neither did your source.
I think you a were listening to some right wing site who HOPES that is happening.
It isn't.


Posted by canaan on October 10, 2008 at 9:37 a.m.

in response to thehermit

Did you know that Sarah Palin got her start in politics in Wasilla with the help of two guys from the party that hates America, the Alaskan Independence Party?

And did you know that once she became mayor, her door was always open to them and that she helped one gain a seat in the city council?

Obama never gave Ayers access or influence during his time as state senator.

Who is Sarah Palin and why isn't the msm asking more questions?

Oh, I remember, she won't talk to them. We all have to be kept into the dark because we might not like what we see.

So let's just pretend all is well and Sarah Palin is a red-blooded lover of America and forget about those pesky questionable ties she has to the anti-American Alaskan Independence Party.


Posted by slugbug333 on October 10, 2008 at 9:38 a.m.

Richsteele and John,

Good to see you guys still on here!


Posted by common_sense on October 10, 2008 at 9:40 a.m.

in response to canaan

Once a terriorist always a terriorist. If they did it once, who said they won't do it again? Who knows if he will continue his good behavior? Obama does not know what he is doing, he is depending on everyone else to inform him of what to do. McCain is sure of himself and has a lot more experience. Unfortunately it doesn't matter what any of us think, our California votes don't count in the Presidential elections anyway. Eltorial votes are finalized before we place our ballets. In the past, I would vote democrat if it counted, but this year, I know who put us in this mess, the democratic parties. People vote democratic because in the past they helped us lower to middle class families, but they have changed.


Posted by Cato on October 10, 2008 at 9:40 a.m.

Obama supporters do not care about the skeletons in their man's closent.
All they care about is electing an overt socialist/all government all the time advocate to the white house.
Because that is what they want.
~~~
It does not matter about his past.
There is no information about the man that can tarnish "their" image of him.
His followers support his worldview, because it is the same as theirs, and since they believe themselves to be "good guys", and because "the end justifies the means", Obama's path to get where he is is justifiable.
According to his followers that is.


Posted by GoGriz on October 10, 2008 at 9:40 a.m.

in response to thehermit

Are you saying that they are hiding in the shadows and the Republicans are too inept to find out more about them?

You insult your own party by saying they fail to get all of the information. However, there really isn't anything to be found. Feel free, however, to keep the Ayers spin going.


Posted by john on October 10, 2008 at 9:41 a.m.

in response to alvinkarpis2

And you are Einstein.


Posted by superbob on October 10, 2008 at 9:44 a.m.

Anyone here remember the campaign to elect John Kennedy? Because Kennedy was Catholic there was great controversy that he would be taking orders from the Pope or lean towards making "Catholic based" decisions. How times have changed.

It's interesting to weigh the issues are presented by the McClain and Obama camps and think back to how simple life used to be and how simple the issues were during the campaign of 1960. If you weren't there you have not the slightest idea what I'm talking about.


Posted by john on October 10, 2008 at 9:49 a.m.

in response to thehermit

I wonder what the righty elitists and wealthy fat cats like Charles Keating who gave HUDGE amounts of money to Mccain liked about himother than being so easily bribed.

Hmmmmm

Ayers contributed a whole $200 dollars.
Keating HUNDREDS of thousands of dollars, vacations, and other incentives. He and his cronies then ripped off taxpayers for billions.

Hmmm indeed.
Dimwit.


Posted by norcalwomen on October 10, 2008 at 9:58 a.m.

i can not wait for the next debate if mc cain has any balls at all he will call out obama on the whole terriorist thing. And if he does watch the you know what hit the fan, This great American is running for the President of the Untied States Of America and you are going to dare to call him a terriorist. It will be the last time this "fellow prisoner" has a leg to stand on. With the way we feel about the word terriorist and he is going to throw it around like nothing shame on him, my guess is that he will not say anything about it and stick to his non funny jabs when he is the only one laughing while he watches Obama run away with the victory. Can't wait for November, can't wait to have someone fix our great counrty


Posted by steveoutwest on October 10, 2008 at 9:58 a.m.

If you value your 2nd Amendment rights and you believe that you have the right to bear arms to protect your life, the life of a loved one, your property and your country from those who are out to do you harm, then you know who to vote for.

If you think that your 2nd Amendment rights should be restricted or completely abolished, not worth the fight to keep or you are in favor of the global ban on gun ownership proposed by those countries that have been invaded and conquered then you know who to vote for.

It's an easy choice....


Posted by stevenpaule on October 10, 2008 at 10:01 a.m.

I just don't understand why anyone would WANT to be prez during these times! What a mess!


Posted by canaan on October 10, 2008 at 10:04 a.m.

in response to Cato

There are no skeletons in his closet. Can you name one person who has been more thoroughly vetted than Barack Obama? Because I can't.

The only skeletons are the imaginary ones that rightwing radio and fox like to whip up in the ignorant to control their votes.

None of the smears stand up to scrutiny. Ayers is a nonissue. Hundreds of people in Chicago know him. He's a college professor. Republicans have sat on boards with him, but will you accuse them of palling with terrorists? No, of course not, because they are immune.

They don't have to live by the same high standards Democrats are required to do. The whole Ayers thing is beyond silly and McCain knows it. If he thought Obama was palling around with terrorists, if it was that important to him, he would have brought it up in the debate.

The Hate Talk Express is nothing but a coward.


Posted by canaan on October 10, 2008 at 10:08 a.m.

in response to steveoutwest

If someone tells you something, do you always take it at face value or do you do some research to determine whether it is the truth or not?

Because what you think you know about Obama and the 2nd Amendment and reality are two different things.

So before you go spreading falsehoods, I suggest you do more research.

Obama isn't going to take your guns away from you. This is ALWAYS an issue in EVERY election and it NEVER happens.

You, sir, are being fear-mongered and in turn are fear-mongering. Cut the crap.


Posted by steveoutwest on October 10, 2008 at 10:11 a.m.

in response to canaan

The choice is clear!


Posted by NorCalHeathen3 on October 10, 2008 at 10:12 a.m.

in response to Cato

"Obama supporters do not care about the skeletons in their man's closent."

- Try presenting a valid "skeleton" and people will care. The whole Ayers thing is a bunch of idiocy and everyone knows it.

"All they care about is electing an overt socialist"

- That's the same BS being screamed by every over the top wing-nut out there. It's the same BS fear mongering that the right tried to get Bill Clinton with. It was wrong then and it's wrong now.

"because "the end justifies the means"

- Tell that to the smear tacticians on the right. They are hard at work at this very moment trying to invent that perfect piece of BS to change people's minds.

"According to his followers"

- Political candidates don't have "followers", they have "supporters".

I'm really glad that views like yours are not held by most Americans. Moderates of all varieties... Republicans, Independents and Democrats are not letting the smears get any traction. We're all tired of it.


Posted by Prepare4Change on October 10, 2008 at 10:12 a.m.

in response to reddinglife

Statements like that show that you have so little substance and quality to yourself that you have to bring others down, no matter the means, to make yourself feel even slightly human or humane.

Unfortunately these are the same tactics McCain uses. Thanks for making that connection for me.

Enjoy!


Posted by john on October 10, 2008 at 10:13 a.m.

in response to mk

NO


Posted by john on October 10, 2008 at 10:25 a.m.

One of the other things we should know is that McCain served on the board of the neo-Nazi US Council of World Freedom for a number of years.


Posted by Prepare4Change on October 10, 2008 at 10:26 a.m.

in response to bentoman

Wasn't that his ex-wife? Or is he beating Cindy too?


Posted by crosemeyer3 on October 10, 2008 at 10:46 a.m.

in response to bentoman

Two thumbs up, great post.


Posted by john on October 10, 2008 at 10:48 a.m.

Ayers? This says it far better than I can.

"Even if Obama knew about Ayers’ past, what difference would this make?
Does anyone really believe Obama and Ayers are conspiring?
Perhaps they’ll take down the government, install Communism and destroy our freedoms?
Are you kidding, or are you totally batcrap!?
Where is this "story" going, because I don't see that it makes a difference to anyone except the McCain/Palin campaign and their attempt to gain votes with insane character assassination? With the global economic crisis hitting the fan thanks to an explosion of greed enabled by the policies of deregulation and no oversight on Wall Street, we are rescuing the rich so they can keep their swimming pools and classic car collection while the "regulation" of Main Street has given the government license to tap our phones and spend our tax dollars investigating us as possible terrorists."

Only the lonely right wing fanatics give a damn about Ayers with what is going on.
If you think him important than that, you are either rich or stupid, maybe both. Most likely the latter.

But keep screaming, maybe you'll get another of those who think Obama "has the bloodlines" like that racist idiot in Ohio to believe you..


Posted by hawkeye on October 10, 2008 at 10:50 a.m.

in response to alvinkarpis2

"Obama is a Black Panther"

McCain is a White Cheetah.

He got caught cheetahing with Keatahing.


Posted by reddinglife on October 10, 2008 at 10:54 a.m.

in response to NorCalHeathen3

You can try and hide your motivations for voting a liberal into office but I think everyone knows what they are. Reduced drugs laws, shorter prison sentences, releasing tens of thousands of inmates, all things the liberals support. Proposition 5 reads as if it were authored by somebody who shares your views. By the way for something to be slanderous it would have to be false. You will also note it was formed as a question not a statement. Your internet law degree is failing you again.


Posted by john on October 10, 2008 at 10:56 a.m.

in response to bentoman

Thanks, I appreciate that.


Posted by reddinglife on October 10, 2008 at 11 a.m.

in response to Prepare4Change

I didn't bring anyone down, if that happened he did it to himself. I knew what he was before the truth came out just by the way he conducts himself. You obivoulsy knew that too caus your him or his mummy.


Posted by alvinkarpis2 on October 10, 2008 at 11:01 a.m.

in response to bentoman

Wow who am I Einstein or Hitler?

Obama was Patty Hearst's handler when he was with the Symbionese Liberation Army.


Posted by john on October 10, 2008 at 11:03 a.m.

in response to alvinkarpis2

Well, I guess that clarifies it.
Einstein is NOT the answer.
Unless we are talking "Back to the Future".


Posted by hawkeye on October 10, 2008 at 11:04 a.m.

in response to steveoutwest

The following is copied from barackobama.com:

"As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals who shouldn't have them. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign battlefields and not on our streets."

Please at least read the second sentence.


Posted by alvinkarpis2 on October 10, 2008 at 11:09 a.m.

in response to john

I guess being Doc Browns dog is a good insult.

Obama used to date Joanne Chesimard.


Posted by hawkeye on October 10, 2008 at 11:15 a.m.

in response to reddinglife

Do you know how much tax money the Republican "tough on crime" stance is costing the state of California. You know, the Republicans that aren't willing to pay for these onerous laws like "three strikes". I support lighter sentences for lesser crimes, just like Ron Paul.

I hope that you are contacting our conservative Assemblyman and Senator and demanding that they raise taxes during the next budget cycle to pay for prisons.


Posted by john on October 10, 2008 at 11:17 a.m.

And you used to date Lassie.


Posted by Vainglory on October 10, 2008 at 11:18 a.m.

in response to hawkeye

LOL - thanks for the laugh!


Posted by elchico on October 10, 2008 at 11:19 a.m.

Stephanopoulos: And I want to give Sen. Clinton a chance to respond, but first a follow up on this issue, general theme of patriotism, in your relationships. A gentleman named William Ayers.
He was part of the Weather Underground in 1970's. They bombed the Pentagon, the Capitol and other buildings. He's never apologized for that.
And in fact, on 9/11, he was quoted in the NY Times saying, "I don't regret setting bombs. I feel we didn't do enough." An early organizing meeting for your State Senate campaing was held at his house and your campaign has said you are "friendly."

Can you explain that relationship for the voters and explain to Democrats why it won't be a problem?

Obama: George, but this is an example of what I'm talking about. This is a guy who lives in my neighborhood, who's a professor of Englihs in Chicago who I know and who I have not received some official endorsement from. He's not somebody who I exchange ideas from on a regular basis.

And the notion that somehow as a consequence of me knowing somebody eho engaged ain destestable
acts 40 years ago, when I was 8 years old, somehow reflects on me and my values doesn't make much sense, George.

So this kind of game in which anybody who I know, regardless of how flimsy the relationship is, that somehow their ideas could be attritubed to me, I think the American people are smarter than that. They're not going to suggest somehow that that is reflective of my views, because it obviously isn't.

Clinton: Well, I think that is a fair general statement, but I also believe that Sen. Obama served on a board with Mr. Ayers for a period of time, the Woods Foundation, which was a paid directorship position.
And, if I'm not mistaken, that relationship with Mr. Ayers on this board continued after 9/11 and after his reported comments, which were deeply hurtful to people in NY and, I would hope, to every American, because they were published on 9/11, and he said that he was just sorry they hadn't done more. And what they did was set bombs. And in some instances, people died. So it is, again, an issue that people will be asking abut.

And I have no doubt - I know Sen. Obama's a good man and I respect him greatly, but I think that this is an issue that certainly the Republicans will be raising.


Posted by alvinkarpis2 on October 10, 2008 at 11:21 a.m.

in response to john

Obamaaaaaaaaa Come Home


Posted by john on October 10, 2008 at 11:26 a.m.

He will. To his new House. The White House.


Posted by john on October 10, 2008 at 11:27 a.m.

in response to elchico

Yep, they will and it will work just as well as it did for Hillary.
She lost.


Posted by elchico on October 10, 2008 at 11:33 a.m.

You don't think be's been thoroughly vetted?

McCAi: No, actually I don't. In fact, Sen. Clinton in their debates said that the American people didn't know enough about him, including his realtionship with Mr. Ayers. That's what she said. And I agree with that. He said he was a guy in the neighborhood. We know that's not true. He said - he wrote down a piece of paper that he would take public financing for his presidential campaign if I would. He betrayed the trust of the American people there.
He looked in the camera twice during the debate with Sen. Clinton and said: "I will sit down and negotiate with John McCain before I decide toforgo public financing for my campaign." He never called me. He looked in the camera and told the American people something that was patently flase. He told the American people about his relationship with Mr. Ayers, that he was a guy in the neighborhood.

He wasn't a guy in the neigborhood. He launced his political career in his living room, in Mr. Ayers' living room. And I don't care about two
washed up old terrorist that are unrepentant about trying to destroy American. But I do care and Americans should care, about his relationship
with hime and whether he's being truthful and candid about it.

You know, Bill Ayers made choices that kill, a baby bomber in my opinion. And the democrats want to give him a badge of Honor! He's a ruthless piece of crap, and after his murdering deed went home to sleep like a baby through the night.

To all the victims involved with the Weathermen, I'd like to say I am sorry for your lost. I am sorry for the pain that you live every single day of your life. While the freebird bomber gets to
sit on boards, and teach children & write his books, and work with Obama & Michelle it will never excuse him for his crimes. He will never take responbility for the killing. He is NOT OUR HERO!

We, the American peoples are not so stupid that we will be fooled with the lies, and coverups by the Obama campaign.


Posted by Outdoors74 on October 10, 2008 at 11:36 a.m.

Whether you are liberal, moderate, or conservative, I seriously do not understand how there has to be much thought involved in electing the right candidate. Our country is moving further and further to the far left. Look at Hollywood, look at the media, look at our culture, ethics, and morals. All going down the tubes. It is the minority in the US that is changing our country and the majority is allowing it.

Obama will bring his far left socialist agenda to Washington. If you embrace your government making decisions for you, then Obama is the right candidate for you. If you support the continuing deteriorization of our morals, ethics, values, and culture, then Obama is your candidate.

Tell me you can honestly look down deep in your soul, and that you fully TRUST Obama with our country. Tell me you have no questions in you head about his associations that cause you just a little discomfort. Tell me you completely trust his judgement.

See, it is simple....
McCain is the only true acceptable candidate whether I like him or not.


Posted by latlarge on October 10, 2008 at 11:36 a.m.

Is this a good time to bring up ,
vietnamvetsagainstmccain.com ?


Posted by hawkeye on October 10, 2008 at 11:39 a.m.

in response to elchico

"And what they did was set bombs. And in some instances, people died."

Not that it matters one bit, but do you know who died?


Posted by NorCalHeathen3 on October 10, 2008 at 11:39 a.m.

in response to reddinglife

"By the way for something to be slanderous it would have to be false."

- You are a pig... You attack me with off topic, ad hominem and patently false BS that has nothing to do with what we're talking about in here. To add to that, you did it completely out of the blue... for no other reason than to be a nasty, hateful person.

"Proposition 5 reads as if it were authored by somebody who shares your views."

- I have never spoken of Prop 5 here, yet you act as if you know my views. You don't.

"You can try and hide your motivations for voting a liberal into office but I think everyone knows what they are."

- I post here a lot. My views and the reasons I hold them have been made very clear. To insinuate that I have some ulterior motive is a load of crap.

This thread is not about me. If you want to dispute any of my posts on THE ISSUES, please have at it. Otherwise, stick to the topic and knock off the sleazy behavior and toxic attitude.


Posted by john on October 10, 2008 at 11:40 a.m.

in response to elchico

Snore!!!!


Posted by steveoutwest on October 10, 2008 at 11:42 a.m.

in response to hawkeye

"Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals who shouldn't have them."

Got any concrete info as to what these two candidates "commonsense measures" ideas would actually include and the restrictions that they impose to make us all safer?


Posted by john on October 10, 2008 at 11:44 a.m.

Just like Hillary, Mccain can't win on issues so he has to resort to slime. His own camapign admits they lose if issues are discussed.
No wonder you like it elchico. Must be like home for you.


Posted by alvinkarpis2 on October 10, 2008 at 11:45 a.m.

in response to john

I was talking about the Black Panther HQ in Oakland


Posted by common_sense on October 10, 2008 at 11:48 a.m.

in response to elchico

Two thumbs up, well said.


Posted by john on October 10, 2008 at 11:50 a.m.

in response to alvinkarpis2

He won't be there.
You racism is leaving a mess everywhere.


Posted by john on October 10, 2008 at 11:52 a.m.

"He is not the McCain I endorsed."

-- Former Michigan Gov. William Milliken (R), quoted by the Grand Rapids Press, backing away from his support of Sen. John McCain.

October 10, 2008

I wouldn't want on me either.


Posted by hpcrdredding on October 10, 2008 at 11:54 a.m.

in response to Outdoors74

"Whether you are liberal, moderate, or conservative, I seriously do not understand how there has to be much thought involved in electing the right candidate. Our country is moving further and further to the far left. Look at Hollywood, look at the media, look at our culture, ethics, and morals. All going down the tubes. It is the minority in the US that is changing our country and the majority is allowing it".

Look at the people who are selling the immorality. The rich billionaire CEOs who enjoy Bush's tax cuts ironically enough. The Republicans are prosperity to the rich and "morality" to the ignorant poor masses.

"Obama will bring his far left socialist agenda to Washington. If you embrace your government making decisions for you, then Obama is the right candidate for you. If you support the continuing deteriorization of our morals, ethics, values, and culture, then Obama is your candidate".

You'll be one of those ignorant sheep in the end days asking the Lord when you didn't give him food, water, clothe him, or visit him in prison. Pure capitalism isn't a good thing. You have to help your people or you end up with the same situation we are in. Whats wrong with feeding the poor, giving medical care to all, ect? Socialism? If you're a Christian you would be better off ting a milestone to your neck and drowning yourself in the Sacramento river.

"Tell me you can honestly look down deep in your soul, and that you fully TRUST Obama with our country. Tell me you have no questions in you head about his associations that cause you just a little discomfort. Tell me you completely trust his judgement".

Can you honestly look down in YOUR soul and trust a thief and a liar like McCain? Can you trust an old man who might die and be replaced by Palin the worst VP in history after Cheney? You bring up morality but McCain cheated on his wife and left her for a rich Heiress. He got caught in the Keating 5. He is a crook and a liar. You talk a lot about morality but Obama is a Christian whos been with his wife for many years. You disgust me. The supposed family values party also has Palin with her unwed teen mother of a daughter. What a case for morality huh?


Posted by NorCalHeathen3 on October 10, 2008 at 11:55 a.m.

Fox News Poll: Nearly Two-Thirds Say Ayers Makes No Difference To Vote -

Q - "Does Obama's connection with Ayers make you less likely to vote for him for president or does it not really make a difference to your vote?"

Less Likely - 32%

No Difference - 61%

Among independents, the numbers were:

Less Likely - 29%

No Difference - 64%

They also asked if the candidates were running negative campaigns:

McCain - 51%

Obama - 21%

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/101008_foxpoll.pdf

The poll also gave Obama a 7 point lead over McCain... from Fox News no less!


Posted by common_sense on October 10, 2008 at 12:01 p.m.

These Candidates talk about how to help the middle class but none talk about the lower class. Hmmmm. Just a thought.


Posted by alvinkarpis2 on October 10, 2008 at 12:01 p.m.

in response to john

Im not racist, your not paying attention to what im saying.


Posted by john on October 10, 2008 at 12:02 p.m.

Like I said.

Snore.

Unlike the desperate few, elslimo being among the most desperate, most of America has no interest in Bill Ayers. It simply doesn't matter.
What is clear though is the loss of Conservative support for McCain by doing this.
If he can't win on issues, they aren't going to vote for a guy they simply don't trust.


Posted by hpcrdredding on October 10, 2008 at 12:04 p.m.

in response to TheGreatUnwashed

where-as Barrack Obama is a man with talent regardless of his race, Palin on the other hand is a pure case of affirmative action. There are plenty of candidates better then Palin who ironically is inexperienced at a time when McCain was smearing Obama for being...well inexperienced.

I want to ask McCain how his fight with Republicans is going. What a joke. You should have seen that pathetic ad. Him and Palin are fighting their own party?! Why are they in it then?

Oh and McCain and Palin are Mavericks? No, no, no. How are you a maverick when you vote 90% with Bush? That 10% isn't good odds, an